Shrimpsvoices

So with relegation back to non league
the next issue will be whether DA remains as manager. For me there's no contest. With limited finance expected I can't think of any other manager more than capable of putting together a squad that would be more than capable of a mid table team in the National League

I'm not sure who of the current squad DA would want to sign up but the rumour going around on Monday was that the entire squad was told prior to the Carlisle capitulation was that no new contracts were on offer if true not the best of news to players prior to such an important game .

For me DA is the perfect choice although some will have Coleman as the ready made incumbent particularly as he has been seen at rhe Max alongside Rod on a number of recent games. After the less than complimentary comments of the club on Radio Lancashire of his usual partner in crime certain Mr Bell there is no way I would want him as part of a management team.

That doesn't sound right seeing as the majority of the squad have one year extension options in their contracts and Derek mentioned many have met the necessary criteria to activate these extensions.

Personally I can't wait to see the back of most of them but I can begrudgingly see the benefit in resigning a few to keep some kind of continuity.

Goalkeepers - mixed bag. Moore maybe the best but injuries might have finished him. Burgoyne is a liability and not seen enough of Schofield. I'd leave it up to Derek to keep 1 and release the others.

Defenders - Hendrie and Stott should be kept on as well as maybe Taylor and Lewis. Lewis is a useless defender but has a bit about him going forward.

Midfielders - White, Macadam and Songo'o the only 3 worth considering.

Attackers - Angol the only one not completely useless but he'll most likely move on. Maybe also Edwards but he is injury prone.

Final list:

Moore/Burgoyne/Schofield
Hendrie
Stott
Taylor
Lewis
White
Songo'o
Macadam
Edwards
Angol

A solid enough base of 10 players to build on.

A return to having to qualify for the FA Cup.
A return to playing in the FA Trophy.
A shot at the National League Cup (which seems to have a weird format).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2024%E2%8 ... League_Cup

At least we get a bye in the first round of the Lancashire FA Trophy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lancashir ... nge_Trophy

Plenty to look forward to

[quote="redrobo"]

I'm not sure who of the current squad DA would want to sign up but the rumour going around on Monday was that the entire squad was told prior to the Carlisle capitulation was that no new contracts were on offer if true not the best of news to players prior to such an important game .

I really cannot see anyone being daft enough to tell players everybody’s out! but we have dropped to off since the heady days of two league wins on the trot!!

What now?? Just get the sale of the Club over and done with, if Whittingham stays around go the fifth year, still professing “I WANT TO SELL’ it doesn’t really matter the Club will be underfunded again even with the parachute payment from dropping out of the EFL. Whittingham will just be able to fund the Club less.

“JASON OUT TO SURVIVE”

JOTS

If we go back a year . We couldn't offer any player a contract... an embargo was put in place. Nobody from the board could tell us what our budget wad gonna be.
Now are you serious telling me that Jason will have his budget in place and we will be ready to start looking like a national league squad?
Relegation will cost us 500k on PL solidarity payments and 200k of EFL funding.
Now is the time to put pressure on Jason.
Even if you're still gonna buy a season ticket just hold off.
Together we can make change

Like many others I've renewed my Season Ticket on Monday and did so with the club's finances at the centre of my decision.

How could I support the Campaign and withhold purchasing my usual season ticket.

My decision to purchase as it is yours to follow the flock and NAPM.

Jason will be oblivious to any Campaign. The only action that may affect his thinking is if our excellent BoDs resigned on mass although he's so blinkered he probably wouldn't care less and take control himself which would disastrous as happened at the I'll fatwdRugby Club

redrobo wrote:Like many others I've renewed my Season Ticket on Monday and did so with the club's finances at the centre of my decision.

How could I support the Campaign and withhold purchasing my usual season ticket.

My decision to purchase as it is yours to follow the flock and NAPM.

We know you dont need to keep saying it, Stop goading

No chance. I'm just as passionate about support for my club as is the shepherd and his flock about their campaign.

Why you saying things like following the flock?
I'm not gonna lower myself to that sort of behaviour.

We are in a catch-22 situation because our current team is not very good but we also don’t want a repeat of this season where we have to recruit a whole new squad from scratch.

I would like to retain Hendrie, Stott, Songo, White and of course Edwards is already signed up. Maybe Angol too.

The rest I would be happy to see the back of.

CityShrimp wrote:We are in a catch-22 situation because our current team is not very good but we also don’t want a repeat of this season where we have to recruit a whole new squad from scratch.

I would like to retain Hendrie, Stott, Songo, White and of course Edwards is already signed up. Maybe Angol too.

The rest I would be happy to see the back of.

Personally, I think others could be useful at lower league too. Both Dackers and Slew were able to score in lower tier games during the season. From memory, I think they both scored two goals in different games. So they've still "got it" to some extent, but just not effective at all against top quality defenders in L2. Dackers has a lot to learn as he's too young and inexperienced. Slew has a lot of experience but just no longer good enough for L2, so a step down is probably right for him, as it is with Yann, who likewise is coming to the end of his career too. Tollitt could also be useful in a step down league as likewise he has the experience, but L2 was just a step up too far for him.

I think we could be competitive if we kept the entire squad (not that it's even possible!), but they were basically a NL squad playing a league too high for their ability. If think DA did a brilliant job of trying to put a squad together, but ultimately beaten by all the injuries.

Trouble is that we won;t have the same players budget for the next season, so we won't be able to afford the same squad even if they were all willing and able to stay. THAT's the real problem.

How are you so sure the budget will be lower?

It is possiblevthat the new owner (?) will view things differently. Mycocern about the current contender may be too closely connected to JW and view matters like finance in a similar way He or they could turn out to be more aware of rhe needs for a sensible budget. We have to live in hope.

redrobo wrote:How are you so sure the budget will be lower?

Common sense and balance of probabilities. Any new owners will have already paid millions to Jason to pay off the loans. Last years accounts showed a potential loss of between £1m to £1.5m for the next season, so that's something else any new owner would have to fund, even to keep the playing budget the same, which we know won't work because of the extra costs of National insurance and minimum wage due to Rachel's catastrophic budget. Add in the reduced EFL monies and loss of TV monies. Any new owners will be having to find millions of pounds for the club to just stand still, so it's highly unlikely that DA will get a bigger players budget.

redrobo wrote:Like many others I've renewed my Season Ticket on Monday and did so with the club's finances at the centre of my decision.

How could I support the Campaign and withhold purchasing my usual season ticket.

My decision to purchase as it is yours to follow the flock and NAPM.

Jason will be oblivious to any Campaign. The only action that may affect his thinking is if our excellent BoDs resigned on mass although he's so blinkered he probably wouldn't care less and take control himself which would disastrous as happened at the I'll fatwdRugby Club

So you are advocating that the BoD’s to resign, seriously!!

Early bird ticket sales do not fund the Club, it probably accounts for around 15-20% of what will be required in what the Clubs overall income will need to be.

redrobo wrote:How are you so sure the budget will be lower?

It is possiblevthat the new owner (?) will view things differently. Mycocern about the current contender may be too closely connected to JW and view matters like finance in a similar way He or they could turn out to be more aware of rhe needs for a sensible budget. We have to live in hope.

Don’t tell me within ‘Two Weeks’

Always a chance the new owner is flush and pumps in a good bit of money to try and bounce back. I think that will have longer term consequences, won't be sustainable and we'll be right back where we started, or worse.

vvm wrote:Final list:

Moore/Burgoyne/Schofield
Hendrie
Stott
Taylor
Lewis
White
Songo'o
Macadam
Edwards
Angol

A solid enough base of 10 players to build on.

This got alluded to in another thread I think as well, but a decent portion of our first XI are pretty serviceable at L2 level. Moore, Hendrie, Williams, Stott, Taylor, Tutonda, A.Lewis, White, Macadam (when playing a bit further back as a box-to-box type), Jones, Edwards and Angol are all capable at the level (to varying degrees), for me.

Issues with the squad has been a lack of depth, particularly up top and in attacking midfield. We needed a bit of luck with injuries to have a decent chance of staying up, but unfortunately we've had none. The two players of real quality up top that we'd potentially keep (Angol and Edwards) were injured for a very large amount of the season. Going half a season with Dackers and Hope as our two CF options and Tollitt as our main creative outlet was always going to be tough.

In terms of next season, I think there's a decent chance that Derek says. I think the reality is his spell at Ross County and media outbursts while there have probably hampered his managerial stock. In terms of players, Derek has already confirmed that some are signed on for next season through activating extensions.

I'd be fine with Burgoyne or Schofield staying as a No2, but we'd need a stronger No1 and I'm not sure we can rely on Moore being fit. Hendrie, Stott and Taylor all fine by me. Tutonda has let himself down at some points this season but would be a strong option for NL level. He's got a fantastic left foot, but I'd probably let Adam Lewis go. I just don't think he's done enough to offset some of the deficiencies in his game. There'll be a side better set up to play in a back three that would be great for him, though.

I'd love to keep White. Macadam was very impressive when moved into more of a box-to-box midfield role (he's just not a No10), and I think could be a good player there in the NL. Lots of love for Songo'o but I'm a bit on the fence. He has come through at some key moments and very much puts his body on the line, but does have a fair few gaffes in him.

Edwards is already contracted, just a shame he'll likely still be out come the start of next season. I'd happily keep Angol but not sure if he'd stay. I wouldn't be too bothered about letting the rest go (maybe have Slew as a squad player). My one curveball would be Cooke. Pretty good pedigree and really brings something we have lacked this season (proper creative presence down the middle) - maybe with a pre-season and a more strongly built team, he'd do well?

I don't understand the 'shepherd/flock' comment? Obviously intended as an insult, but who is the shepherd and who is the flock? The 1920 group started the campaign, and I don't actually know who any of them are (although I could make a guess about some). Am I a sheep, following an invisible leader? Or, are you expecting everyone should thoughtlessly follow your opinion, which, err, would be 'like sheep'?

It's funny how a few of us have said we completely accept other people will have a different opinion to ours, and that's fine, we all want the best for the club. Why are you resorting to insults rather than accepting other people have a different opinion?

redrobo wrote:How are you so sure the budget will be lower?

It is possiblevthat the new owner (?) will view things differently. Mycocern about the current contender may be too closely connected to JW and view matters like finance in a similar way He or they could turn out to be more aware of rhe needs for a sensible budget. We have to live in hope.

WHAT NEW OWNER???

How long has Whittingham been stringing us along, saying there is a sale coming soon? If they had the evidence for the Football League, it would have gone through months ago. There have been suggestions that the National League is less stringent than the EFL when it comes to 'Fit & Proper Person' test and that they are waiting until we come under National League 'oversight'? If that is true, given how weak the EFL is, doesn't that really worry you? If the potential new owner is too dodgy even for the EFL, do we want them? We'd give them a chance, obviously, because we have no option, but what would they be doing, that they need to hide?

Or, that is just a rumour because nothing is happening, AGAIN? It is just more BS. There is no new owner. But carry on, nothing to see here, business as usual, baa...

Little Shrimp wrote:

vvm wrote:Final list:

Moore/Burgoyne/Schofield
Hendrie
Stott
Taylor
Lewis
White
Songo'o
Macadam
Edwards
Angol

A solid enough base of 10 players to build on.

This got alluded to in another thread I think as well, but a decent portion of our first XI are pretty serviceable at L2 level. Moore, Hendrie, Williams, Stott, Taylor, Tutonda, A.Lewis, White, Macadam (when playing a bit further back as a box-to-box type), Jones, Edwards and Angol are all capable at the level (to varying degrees), for me.

Issues with the squad has been a lack of depth, particularly up top and in attacking midfield. We needed a bit of luck with injuries to have a decent chance of staying up, but unfortunately we've had none. The two players of real quality up top that we'd potentially keep (Angol and Edwards) were injured for a very large amount of the season. Going half a season with Dackers and Hope as our two CF options and Tollitt as our main creative outlet was always going to be tough.

In terms of next season, I think there's a decent chance that Derek says. I think the reality is his spell at Ross County and media outbursts while there have probably hampered his managerial stock. In terms of players, Derek has already confirmed that some are signed on for next season through activating extensions.

I'd be fine with Burgoyne or Schofield staying as a No2, but we'd need a stronger No1 and I'm not sure we can rely on Moore being fit. Hendrie, Stott and Taylor all fine by me. Tutonda has let himself down at some points this season but would be a strong option for NL level. He's got a fantastic left foot, but I'd probably let Adam Lewis go. I just don't think he's done enough to offset some of the deficiencies in his game. There'll be a side better set up to play in a back three that would be great for him, though.

I'd love to keep White. Macadam was very impressive when moved into more of a box-to-box midfield role (he's just not a No10), and I think could be a good player there in the NL. Lots of love for Songo'o but I'm a bit on the fence. He has come through at some key moments and very much puts his body on the line, but does have a fair few gaffes in him.

Edwards is already contracted, just a shame he'll likely still be out come the start of next season. I'd happily keep Angol but not sure if he'd stay. I wouldn't be too bothered about letting the rest go (maybe have Slew as a squad player). My one curveball would be Cooke. Pretty good pedigree and really brings something we have lacked this season (proper creative presence down the middle) - maybe with a pre-season and a more strongly built team, he'd do well?

I'd agree with all of that. A big problem of ours was we had pretty much an entire squad of "serviceable" L2 players but pretty much nobody with any kind of spark. None of the squad looked out of their depth but none of them had anything more about them or could ever really make something happen. Not like the start of last season when we had a few youthful, creative players like Mellon, Mayor, Bloxham.

In hindsight I think maybe Derek went too heavy on his defensive players and short-changed the attack a bit. If he could have signed players earlier then I suspect he may have secured a few decent loans in that department but I suppose by the time he had the greenlight to sign players, we were feeding on scraps.

vvm wrote:I think maybe Derek went too heavy on his defensive players and short-changed the attack a bit. If he could have signed players earlier then I suspect he may have secured a few decent loans in that department but I suppose by the time he had the greenlight to sign players, we were feeding on scraps.

I think you are right on both points, but the wrong way round. Because he had to wait so long, he was feeding on scraps, and therefore he couldn't sign quality up front, because they weren't players available.

If a budget for National League is agreed soon, that allows Derek to keep whichever players we currently have, who he wants, then we probably have the spine of a reasonable National League side. But, if we're doing Groundhog Day, and release everyone, we will be screwed... Again.

vvm wrote:I'd agree with all of that. A big problem of ours was we had pretty much an entire squad of "serviceable" L2 players but pretty much nobody with any kind of spark. None of the squad looked out of their depth but none of them had anything more about them or could ever really make something happen. Not like the start of last season when we had a few youthful, creative players like Mellon, Mayor, Bloxham.

Yes, very much did lack spark! And then our two main 'sparks' (Angol and Edwards) were out for large periods of the season. I do think Tollitt is quite creative but just not quite consistently enough at the required level. Him, Slew, Hope and Dackers are all reasonable enough hard working backup/squad options for a side like ourselves recruiting on a budget, but the lack of available quality ahead of them really told. Also we just completely lacked in central attacking areas. Gave Macadam and Jones a shot there and while they're both decent midfielders, neither are suited/creative enough in the right way for that role.

Keith wrote:If a budget for National League is agreed soon, that allows Derek to keep whichever players we currently have, who he wants, then we probably have the spine of a reasonable National League side. But, if we're doing Groundhog Day, and release everyone, we will be screwed... Again.

Agreed. If we're able to sort things budget wise then we can hopefully keep activating contracts or agreeing new deals with players we want to keep and retain a decent spine of players with the likes of Hendrie, Stott, White etc. Then recruit a bit more quality and depth around that.

But obviously - that's a big 'if'! And then assuming there's no more nonsense that disrupts things.

If the rumour that Billy Bodger is referring to above is true and there are no new contracts on offer at present we may already be in the same situation as last Summer but if the other rumour is true and Derek is staying he will already have a few ideas as to who he wants to bring in.....given the funds to do it.

And therein lies the problem. The question "What now?" cannot be answered.

It's going to be a long, stressful Summer!

vvm wrote:In hindsight I think maybe Derek went too heavy on his defensive players and short-changed the attack a bit. If he could have signed players earlier then I suspect he may have secured a few decent loans in that department but I suppose by the time he had the greenlight to sign players, we were feeding on scraps.

When you look at how he was scraping the barrel for defense for the last 2 or 3 games, I don't really agree he went' too heavy at all. Hendrie, Ray, Tutonda, Williams, Millen, Moore, all injured (or suspended). Leaving bare bones requiring Jones to be right back! In January, he rightly prioritised another goalie given Moore's long term injury. In fact, given the injuries, in hindsight, you could say he should have brought in another defender in the January window!

We have plenty "up front". He knew Angol was ready to return after his long injury around Christmas. He brought in Dallas and Garner, and we already had Hope, Tollitt, Edwards, Dackers and Slew.

Trouble was lack of quality in midfield and attacking, not lack of numbers. That was down to being "late to the party" in both last Summer and the January transfer windows - by the time he had the money and go ahead to make signings/loans, the best players had already been taken and he was left scraping the barrel. Goal scorers are in high demand - so they get snapped up quickly. In proportion, there are more midfielders and defenders, so easier to get competent ones.

KenH wrote:

vvm wrote:In hindsight I think maybe Derek went too heavy on his defensive players and short-changed the attack a bit. If he could have signed players earlier then I suspect he may have secured a few decent loans in that department but I suppose by the time he had the greenlight to sign players, we were feeding on scraps.

When you look at how he was scraping the barrel for defense for the last 2 or 3 games, I don't really agree he went' too heavy at all. Hendrie, Ray, Tutonda, Williams, Millen, Moore, all injured (or suspended). Leaving bare bones requiring Jones to be right back! In January, he rightly prioritised another goalie given Moore's long term injury. In fact, given the injuries, in hindsight, you could say he should have brought in another defender in the January window!

We have plenty "up front". He knew Angol was ready to return after his long injury around Christmas. He brought in Dallas and Garner, and we already had Hope, Tollitt, Edwards, Dackers and Slew.

Trouble was lack of quality in midfield and attacking, not lack of numbers. That was down to being "late to the party" in both last Summer and the January transfer windows - by the time he had the money and go ahead to make signings/loans, the best players had already been taken and he was left scraping the barrel. Goal scorers are in high demand - so they get snapped up quickly. In proportion, there are more midfielders and defenders, so easier to get competent ones.

I think I mostly agree, by the time he was free to make signings, it was too late and anyone of any decent quality had gone elsewhere. In both windows. I guess the only solution was to fill up on numbers and hope we might find a winning combination, which never really happened.

vvm wrote:I think I mostly agree, by the time he was free to make signings, it was too late and anyone of any decent quality had gone elsewhere. In both windows. I guess the only solution was to fill up on numbers and hope we might find a winning combination, which never really happened.

Yes, we came out with some decent numbers up front after January, but probably not quite recruited in the way we ideally wanted to. I think the Garner signing was a bit of a panic/trying to get any attacker we could with the limited time remaining. Garner had a couple of decent contributions but I think probably overbalanced us with strikers with not enough wingers/attacking midfielders.

Derek said we had Dylan Duffy (winger) lined up before the soft embargo in January, then Chesterfield swooped in and took him when the deal was halted. I think that probably would have been a better signing than Garner and gone a bit further in solving the creativity issue. We ended up just overloading with strikers which worked in overwhelming weaker teams, but was pretty easily contained by better sides. Think a front four like this could have been really nice:

Edwards - Cooke - Duffy
Angol/Dallas (different kinds of striker, both offering something different)