Lets go on strike

[Andy D]

Or it's back to back relegations #napm

[Keith]

Enjoy our remaining Football League games, big party at the Harrogate game, then Not a Penny More until Whittingham is gone.

No iFollow in National League, and I don't think there is any other coverage either.

[Redalert1970]

There is lots of coverage in the National League especially on a channel called DAZN

Live game every week plus highlight show

The National League is so so so much better than when we were at that level 18 years ago

Let's enjoy the ride and see what happens

[Keith]

There is lots of coverage in the National League especially on a channel called DAZN

Live game every week plus highlight show

Ta, I'd never even heard of DAZN. How much does it cost? It says 'sign up for free', do you pay for games as you watch them, or is it advert funded?

[marky No.1]

£120 for a year or £14.99 a month

[redrobo]

Enjoy our remaining Football League games, big party at the Harrogate game, then Not a Penny More until Whittingham is gone.

No iFollow in National League, and I don't think there is any other coverage either.

Still can't get my head around why faithful fans seem intent on punishing their club by withdrawing funding but that is their choice. Not mine and I bet the vast majority of others as well....

The current owner will take absolutely no notice of the campaign in my opinion BUT others will disagree. Just out of curiosity have those intent in taking the action had a chance to speak to any of the clubs officials to see what their take on it is....

As for no iFollow there are other areas of the media that we can no longer expect to get coverage non more so than Radio Lancashire who at this moment do not cover game reports from National league AFC Fylde. So unless Accy join us the chances of Radio Lancashire covering games is questionable.

[black morse]

Enjoy our remaining Football League games, big party at the Harrogate game, then Not a Penny More until Whittingham is gone.

No iFollow in National League, and I don't think there is any other coverage either.

Still can't get my head around why faithful fans seem intent on punishing their club by withdrawing funding but that is their choice. Not mine and I bet the vast majority of others as well....

As for no iFollow there are other areas of the media that we can no longer expect to get coverage non more so than Radio Lancashire who at this moment do not cover game reports from National league AFC Fylde. So unless Accy join us the chances of Radio Lancashire covering games is questionable.

Let's put it this way redrobo....fans withdrawing funding are taking a gamble that Jason will see that incomes are not going to cover expenditures (so nothing in it for him) and he will go for what he can get rather than hang on and have to keep funding the club. Fans continuing to go to home games are supplying the income needed to keep the club alive FOR A WHILE!!!!!! Jason will hang on to try to get his "loans" back but fairly soon the club will not be able to pay interest on loans (and probably not be able to pay the tax bill etc) and go into Administration anyway.

Either way we run the risk of Administration but with NAPM we have the chance of Jason seeing sense and getting out albeit with less money that he wants. Nobody wants Administration but it's going to happen unless Jason sells. If Jason sells there will be no need for NAPM. Which part of this do you disagree with rr?

[al1]

The board are supposed to communicate with the fans,its not up to fans to go and find them at the game,does anyone see board members walking round the home terrace or the berlin wall?As usual deadly silence from them where are the promised regular updates?

[BerlinWaller]

How many more times does it need explaining?if fans are happy to keep going and funding the club which in turn funds Whittingham then that is their call. You will buy your season ticket expecting to see a club with a budget that can compete at the level but in reality you will see a team put together with a budget well below what is needed. This is because Whittingham can not fund the club without loans. If he can not make the repayments with money from fans then he is done for. The Directors don't put any money in, they won't be making up any shortfalls.

[redrobo]

To reply to black morse:

I am not and have never have been one who gambles...so i would not and could not gamble with the future of our club unlike those who support the campaign.

As far as I am aware and only the BoDs can confirm or deny this...the current owner is not receiving any interest payments from the club on his loans to date. The interest is being added to the sale price of the club which he may not achieve so he is in fact taking a huge gamble himself. In the unlikely event that he decides to walk away then quite simply we are stuffed because let's be honest the club will not survive without the likes of JW continuing to put money into your and my club. That's a simple and somewhat gut wrenching prospect.

No football club at our level can survive without the financial input of an owner or owners who in the main will want their pound of flesh. So whoever takes over will loan money to the club but will want a return.

Let's be honest MFC has lived far above its means for far too long. In fact I would wager that in my 67 years of support there have been few occasions when the club has NOT had to rely on financial support from outside of the club.

This town of ours no longer supports the club financially and has to rely on a BoDs being able to operate as best they can on limited finance. Gone are the days of the local butcher or paper shop being able to fund the club adequately.

Yesterday's pathetic home attendance of 3250 in a gate of 4900 shows there is not the level of support to keep an EFL club going without outside financing. So it's back to square one with whoever takes over. They invest money...in return they want a return....unless of course the club can attract the likes of investors at Wrexham and to some extent Carlisle BUT even their money pot will dry up eventually I suspect.

Like others I want to see the back of JW BUT his replacement could be just as bad if not worse. What then? Another NARM campaign until he sells to another shark....etc etc etc.

I'll be honest and say that if it means supporting a club at a level below the National League but doesn't have to rely solely on finance from outside the club then so be it. Some finance will always come from outside the club. That is a fact. The cost of operating a football club is not immune to the real world where everyday costs are going up and up. My son in law supports Scarboro and they have to rely to some extent on funding from outside the club as do the majority of teams even at their level.

I recently had a conversation with one of our Co Chairman about the current financial problems and he posed a question to me. 'What would i do if at the end of the month the club had bills to pay but not enough finances in the club at that moment in time to pay those bills'....Answer...rely on the financial input from outside....ie in our case JW. In fact as much as I loathe him for his lack of support at times that our manager needed it, he has like it or not kept our club alive. Without his support or support from any other owner MFC would not be able to survive at the current level ( miracles do happen) or possibly even that of the National League...

So unless by some miracle we can attract a wealthy benefactor who just wants to own a successful football club with very little financial return on his or their investment we are unfortunately stuck with the current situation of swimming in a sea of sharks.

Of course the proposed new owner may not be JW Mk2....we can only live in hope.

The survival of our club at whatever level is all that matters..BUT we can't survive purely on income from within the club. We have to rely on financing from outside but to find that individual or individuals who will invest but only expect a reasonable return is almost impossible.'''although we can all live in hope that another miracle will happen.

Now I will wait for the usual flack to head my way.....but so be it....

[Old Man Kensey]

RR if things continue as they are you're not going to have a club to support.

[black morse]

To reply to black morse:

I am not and have never have been one who gambles...so i would not and could not gamble with the future of our club unlike those who support the campaign.

As far as I am aware and only the BoDs can confirm or deny this...the current owner is not receiving any interest payments from the club on his loans to date. The interest is being added to the sale price of the club which he may not achieve so he is in fact taking a huge gamble himself. In the unlikely event that he decides to walk away then quite simply we are stuffed because let's be honest the club will not survive without the likes of JW continuing to put money into your and my club. That's a simple and somewhat gut wrenching prospect.

No football club at our level can survive without the financial input of an owner or owners who in the main will want their pound of flesh. So whoever takes over will loan money to the club but will want a return.

Let's be honest MFC has lived far above its means for far too long. In fact I would wager that in my 67 years of support there have been few occasions when the club has NOT had to rely on financial support from outside of the club.

This town of ours no longer supports the club financially and has to rely on a BoDs being able to operate as best they can on limited finance. Gone are the days of the local butcher or paper shop being able to fund the club adequately.

Yesterday's pathetic home attendance of 3250 in a gate of 4900 shows there is not the level of support to keep an EFL club going without outside financing. So it's back to square one with whoever takes over. They invest money...in return they want a return....unless of course the club can attract the likes of investors at Wrexham and to some extent Carlisle BUT even their money pot will dry up eventually I suspect.

Like others I want to see the back of JW BUT his replacement could be just as bad if not worse. What then? Another NARM campaign until he sells to another shark....etc etc etc.

I'll be honest and say that if it means supporting a club at a level below the National League but doesn't have to rely solely on finance from outside the club then so be it. Some finance will always come from outside the club. That is a fact. The cost of operating a football club is not immune to the real world where everyday costs are going up and up. My son in law supports Scarboro and they have to rely to some extent on funding from outside the club as do the majority of teams even at their level.

I recently had a conversation with one of our Co Chairman about the current financial problems and he posed a question to me. 'What would i do if at the end of the month the club had bills to pay but not enough finances in the club at that moment in time to pay those bills'....Answer...rely on the financial input from outside....ie in our case JW. In fact as much as I loathe him for his lack of support at times that our manager needed it, he has like it or not kept our club alive. Without his support or support from any other owner MFC would not be able to survive at the current level ( miracles do happen) or possibly even that of the National League...

So unless by some miracle we can attract a wealthy benefactor who just wants to own a successful football club with very little financial return on his or their investment we are unfortunately stuck with the current situation of swimming in a sea of sharks.

Of course the proposed new owner may not be JW Mk2....we can only live in hope.

The survival of our club at whatever level is all that matters..BUT we can't survive purely on income from within the club. We have to rely on financing from outside but to find that individual or individuals who will invest but only expect a reasonable return is almost impossible.'''although we can all live in hope that another miracle will happen.

Now I will wait for the usual flack to head my way.....but so be it....

Redrobo I agree with most of the things you say. However if, as you have been told, Jason is not taking interest on his loans but simply adding the loan money plus interest onto the sale price he is never going to get all his money back. In those circumstances he will soon stop putting anymore money into the club.

[dazza]

Red robbo. Stop it. Just stop it with your contradictions

I’m not a gambling man and never will be.
Then. I would wager Your some man you

Ps are we still waiting or have we been sold

[BerlinWaller]

If you don't think that Jason is taking any money out then look at the club accounts after the 1st season in L1. You will see that £1.8m was taken out of the club and paid to Whittingham. Rod mentioned a few years ago that the club paid a loan off early because the interest was crippling the club.

Jason Whittingham paid himself and the dodgy solicitor £500k each at Worcester. People that think that Whittingham isn't fleecing the club are deluded.

[Keith]

I am not and have never have been one who gambles...so i would not and could not gamble with the future of our club unlike those who support the campaign.

If faced with two options:

Option One: Do nothing. 100% guaranteed, the club goes out of business within two years.
Option Two: Do something. 50% chance, the club goes out of business within two years, 50% chance we survive as a stronger National League team.

Now, do you become a 'gambling man'? Or, do you simply sleepwalk into oblivion? You still haven't answered my repeatedly asked question, 'how do you see this ending, if we carry on as we are'?

As far as I am aware and only the BoDs can confirm or deny this...the current owner is not receiving any interest payments from the club on his loans to date. The interest is being added to the sale price of the club which he may not achieve so he is in fact taking a huge gamble himself.

So who did take close to £300,000 interest out of the club, according to the published accounts? It went 'somewhere'. If it went 'out' in interest, then came back as an increased loan, then it should show up as income too, shouldn't it?

Or, Whittingham's claim is simply another lie? If you can explain where the almost, £300k has gone, and it doesn't involve Whittingham, then fair enough.

Now I will wait for the usual flack to head my way.....but so be it....

I don't think you've had that much flack, considering! But it would be nice if you actually answered questions that are asked of you!

[Old Man Kensey]

I don't think you've had that much flack, considering! But it would be nice if you actually answered questions that are asked of you!

He's more concerned about losing his precious seat and cannot see the bigger picture. The whole club is on the edge and so many people are sleepwalking over the cliff.

Jason will be working out how to pocket the parachute payment whilst we argue amongst ourselves.

[Little Shrimp]

I'm not totally convinced by the NAPM stuff still, but I don't think the idea is without merit.

However, let's be clear about the reality of the current situation - while Jason cashed in when we had a good year, he's currently having to shell out large amounts of cash (which he quite clearly doesn't have) to keep the club dragging itself along. And let's be honest, the club won't be making money any time soon under Jason's ownership, and as such he will not be making any money (and instead will be losing money).

The point of NAPM wouldn't be to stop Jason making money from the club (because he cannot at the moment, and won't be able to in the future), it would be to force him to stump up even more funds which he clearly does not have. Then (theoretically) he gets on and sells to a reasonable bidder before it's too late, or it becomes 'too late' and we go into admin, which would be crap but ultimately would get rid of Jason along with the satisfying bonus of him getting basically nothing for the club.

My issue is more that it's incredibly hard to tell how much the impact of such a campaign would have on Jason, and how he would react to it. Would he just slash the budgets even f urther to a manageable level for him, and we simply just drop the divisions with little movement on the sale? How able is he to continuously raise funds? Is he so locked in with Panjab etc that he will just keep dragging this out? A sensible offer for the club now, I think, is probably around £1-1.5 million at the absolute maximum. Would he just take shelling out an extra few hundred grand for a few of years on the chin to try and and gamble for the £5 million(ish) Panjab will give him instead?

Given the above risks, I'm a bit on the fence about NAPM. If I felt more convinced that in a shorter timeframe it would force Jason out (even via administration), I'd be absolutely all for it.

[Keith]

As I've said before, in other threads, I don't believe the club can survive in National League North.

The interest paid in the last financial year was just short of £300k (£285k ish from memory). Many of the overheads for the club will remain the same, for example, the cost of floodlights is the same in the National League or Championship. The rates are the same. Insurance is probably very similar, certainly for the buildings. The electricity needs to be on, whether 4,000 crowd or 400. But, National League North, no TV money. No Bristol Street Motors cash (we may not enjoy the competition, but it pays well). Carabao Cup offers the chance of a pay-day every season. We get two seasons of parachute payments.

I think we're heading for Administration regardless. The only option will be if Whittingham sells in time. NaPM campaign will bring pressure on Whittingham to sell while he can. If he'd been reasonable in his assessment of the club's value, he could have sold when we were a League One side, but now, he's going to struggle to give the club away.

[Little Shrimp]

The interest paid in the last financial year was just short of £300k (£285k ish from memory).

This isn’t true and is something that does need clearing up. The interest figure was the amount accrued on what has been loaned to the club, but it wasn’t paid back. We are making a loss, and Jason’s having to put money in - there’s no money to take out! He was only able to do so when the club was profitable, which will definitely not be happening again while he’s in charge.

Obviously, it’s still not great, but I think it is important to clear the above up. As to what happens to the loan/interest balance, who knows. It may well get struck off as part of the sale, which I think would be the case if it goes to Panjab as they’ve clearly got some kind of arrangement with/hold over Jason.

Like you say Keith, he should have sold the club to a sensible party when we were on a high in L1, and he would likely have still gotten a decent price. This ridiculous situation has been caused by his own greed/stupidity/poor decision making.

[Keith]

The interest paid in the last financial year was just short of £300k (£285k ish from memory).

This isn’t true and is something that does need clearing up. The interest figure was the amount accrued on what has been loaned to the club, but it wasn’t paid back. We are making a loss, and Jason’s having to put money in - there’s no money to take out! He was only able to do so when the club was profitable, which will definitely not be happening again while he’s in charge.

But then, why does it show up as "interest paid"? Surely, if it is an accrual, it would be documented as such?

"The majority shareholders were owed £1,338,243 at 31 May 2024. This balance has increased to £1,535,971 as at the date of approval of these financial statements"

That is an increase in debt of £197,728.

"Interest Payable: £275,814"

Interest payable is more than the increased debt, so 'something' is paid out, 'somewhere'?

I'm no financial expert, and I totally accept, I may be missing something, or not understanding what is going on, in which case, I'd welcome an explanation. What is clear, is the club is losing a ridiculous amount of money, at a rate that is unsustainable. It also suggests that the interest on the loan is in the region of 18%???

Regardless of how it is all funded, we will struggle in National League, and as I've said previously, will simply not be able to survive in National League North. Something has to give.

[Keith]

However, let's be clear about the reality of the current situation - while Jason cashed in when we had a good year, he's currently having to shell out large amounts of cash (which he quite clearly doesn't have) to keep the club dragging itself along. And let's be honest, the club won't be making money any time soon under Jason's ownership, and as such he will not be making any money (and instead will be losing money).

Presumably, the Chelsea game will make the next set of accounts a bit better reading. Also, I think the Adam Mayor sale will give income a boost, as that will presumably fall in that period?

[vvm]

Remember at the start of last season Jason initially ordered the club to run at break even before eventually relenting and putting up a small but at least somewhat realistic budget. I think he's likely to go down the same route again, I have no idea what a break even budget is but judging by the panic and relief around it last time, it will be peanuts.

At that point I could see how NAPM could directly harm the club. I agree the protest isn't without merit but it's a difficult decision.

[Lurchy]

NAPM will hurt the club but i think that is the point? Rather than waiting years and consistent decline towards the inevitable failure of the business the thinking of NAPM is it will force Jason's hand to bring forward a sale or administration

[Billy bodger]

I don’t like the phrases “Let’s go on strike” or that “NAPM” is a protest. I would like it to be known as a CAMPAIGN. That it is a measure by the good honest supporters, (who wish to), to try and highlight and put pressure on our stay away owner, by saying we are doing exactly the same thing as you and STAYING AWAY.

As I have said I have thought very hard before saying I will join the NAPM campaign starting from next season. I slowly came to the conclusion that the faith (blind), I have put in the owner, to do as he has said and sell the Club has completely disappeared. So much so I am now at the point where I just don’t feel completely let down by him but as a useful bloody fool taken for granted.

As for those who say the campaign will bring down our club, really!! I think it might just save it. Our stay away owner and his antics and his inability to fund our club to a higher level is to blame for our demise, not a thing the fans do or don’t do, except for the NAPM campaign which might just focus his mind and sell the club pronto.

[Little Shrimp]

I'm no financial expert, and I totally accept, I may be missing something, or not understanding what is going on, in which case, I'd welcome an explanation. What is clear, is the club is losing a ridiculous amount of money, at a rate that is unsustainable. It also suggests that the interest on the loan is in the region of 18%???

I'm no financial expert either, I just asked an accountant to clarify

The way it was explained is that no money has been taken out by Jason. And how could it be? He's literally having to put money into the club to keep it afloat. And yes, the money we lose is bad, but also not that much compared to a majority of other clubs - just shows the state of football at the moment.

Presumably, the Chelsea game will make the next set of accounts a bit better reading. Also, I think the Adam Mayor sale will give income a boost, as that will presumably fall in that period?

The Chelsea game will help mitigate losses but ultimately won't stem them. Adam Mayor's sale was January 2024, so I'm presuming was in the latest set of accounts, and wasn't enough to stop losses.

NAPM will hurt the club but i think that is the point? Rather than waiting years and consistent decline towards the inevitable failure of the business the thinking of NAPM is it will force Jason's hand to bring forward a sale or administration

Yes, and for me the toss up is how likely it is to succeed in reasonable timeframe and force a sale to a more reputable party. It's possible that even with a NAPM campaign, Jason keeps finding ways to plug gaps and just lets the club continue to rot at a worse rate/allows further damage to happen, gambling on eventually getting whatever daft sale price he's agreed with Panjab.

Another factor is whether or not being in the NL will aid Jason's campaign to sell to Panjab. I know concerns are being raised about the owner checks being less stringent than in the EFL, but I'm not sure if that will definitely be the case. My understanding is that it's the FA who does the checks, and presumably they'll be feeling similar pressures to RE the independent regulator? Although off the top of my head, the new owners of Chorley seemed to have had fairly scant information about them available, albeit that was a couple of years ago now.