Shrimpsvoices

The management seem to have a problem with players losing the ball when making a run. Their issue seems to be that if you move up the pitch and lose the ball you've not just given the ball away but you're also out of position. And so that seems to be the deal-breaker.

It happened with the likes of Hedley and now Carlos. We seem to have plenty of young talent, yet we need to accept that in order for them to develop they will make mistakes when trying to play. I'd rather we give them the time and the encouragement to develop in the first team rather than sitting out their contracts as a bench-warmer.

Ironically you have the likes of Kenyon who repeatedly gives the ball away with terrible passes but that seems ok. For me, that's not what I want to watch. I still think there's nothing better than watching your team running at a defence and creating chances. As a L2 team, I fully accept that will inevitably mean watching someone trip over the ball and eat grass as they try, but that's ok!

Aye Cranston got that treatment, too. Reminds me of Adam Yates at Darlington a few moons ago

marky No.1 wrote:Aye Cranston got that treatment, too. Reminds me of Adam Yates at Darlington a few moons ago

Elliot Osborne a couple of seasons ago got his first start and looked really lively in the first half, a couple of times getting into the opposition penalty box. Second half he came on a different player, barely got past the half way line, substituted shortly after and never really seen again. We said at the time he must have got a rollocking from Jim/Ken at half time for showing initiative which they just don't like.

Same happened with Ryan Williams - a few flashes of inspiration and then dropped for the rest of his contract, the same with Adam Campbell. Players (especially younger ones) who are happy to run with the ball at the opposition seem to get dropped pretty quickly!

They seem to always give preference to the likes of Kenyon, Wildig and Ellison who do what Jim tells them to, whether they achieve anything or not.

Mendes-Gomes scored our goal today in a 3-1 defeat against Wigan Athletic Reserves.

AJ also played 45 minutes in the Wigan game as well which is great news

KenH wrote:

marky No.1 wrote:Aye Cranston got that treatment, too. Reminds me of Adam Yates at Darlington a few moons ago

Elliot Osborne a couple of seasons ago got his first start and looked really lively in the first half, a couple of times getting into the opposition penalty box. Second half he came on a different player, barely got past the half way line, substituted shortly after and never really seen again. We said at the time he must have got a rollocking from Jim/Ken at half time for showing initiative which they just don't like.

Same happened with Ryan Williams - a few flashes of inspiration and then dropped for the rest of his contract, the same with Adam Campbell. Players (especially younger ones) who are happy to run with the ball at the opposition seem to get dropped pretty quickly!

They seem to always give preference to the likes of Kenyon, Wildig and Ellison who do what Jim tells them to, whether they achieve anything or not.

Yes Ken and how all those players have shown Jim just how wrong he was.

Osborne now plays non-league
Williams plays for a small college in the USA
Campbell plays two leagues below

The amount of nonsense about Jim’s use of players in this thread is staggering. Give me an example of players who have gone on to better things that Jim got rid of?

A fair criticism of Jim might be a lack of identifying young talent to bring in from lower levels. Macclesfield have signed more in the last 18 months than Jim has in 10 years and they are flying and look a good side. I don’t understand how their scouting can be any better than ours.

Joe Mwasile was another example who showed bursts of brilliance, was released by Jim, and has since slipped down the league pyramid at a rapid rate of knots and is now playing for Nantwich Town having had more clubs prior to this than I care to think about.

Going back to Macclesfield Town though, they have a Youth Development Manager our longer standing fans will remember well:

https://www.mtfc.co.uk/news/2018/octobe ... t-manager/

Seasider9601 wrote:Joe Mwasile was another example who showed bursts of brilliance, was released by Jim, and has since slipped down the league pyramid at a rapid rate of knots and is now playing for Nantwich Town having had more clubs prior to this than I care to think about.

Going back to Macclesfield Town though, they have a Youth Development Manager our longer standing fans will remember well:

https://www.mtfc.co.uk/news/2018/octobe ... t-manager/

Paul formed a brilliant partnership with Johnny Hardiker. I often thought Paul was the better of the 2 but John got the big money move.

Posh wrote:A fair criticism of Jim might be a lack of identifying young talent to bring in from lower levels. Macclesfield have signed more in the last 18 months than Jim has in 10 years and they are flying and look a good side. I don’t understand how their scouting can be any better than ours.

I think it's less the case of "lack of identifying young talent" and more of a conscious decision of Jim's that he just doesn't want to do this.

I see Jim was a very risk averse manager, this comes across in both his tactics and signings. Very rarely will we take a chance on a young player from non league, very rarely do we loan youngsters from bigger clubs and make them regulars in the first team.

Instead we fill the squad with experience, people that I assume Jim thinks have been there, seen it and done it at this level and will therefore have enough to keep us up. Our strikers this year are 30, 31, 29 and 25, where is the promising young player to take a risk on that could develop into something special?

Not a striker, but for me, Brewitt is showing some real potential. Only 22.

Oswell was a player we signed which, at the time, seemed to have potential but that didn't work too well.

Shrimpy wrote:I see Jim was a very risk averse manager, this comes across in both his tactics and signings.

But is that to a large extent, not having the scope to take risks? The primary goal each season is to avoid relegation and so taking a chance on younger players may be more likely to lead to relegation.

Don't get me wrong, I think that there are times that Jim needs to be more adventurous & confident, rather than worry about the opposition so much (this coming weekend is one where I really hope Jim goes for it against a team low on confidence) but we haven't got much scope for taking risk.

Carlos Mendes does look skillfull but its the rest of him game(off the ball), he's sill way off from being 1st team material.


It's as if a lot of our fans mainly younger one's are just going off his stats on game's like Football Manager, FIFA etc.

Slanester wrote:Not a striker, but for me, Brewitt is showing some real potential. Only 22.

Agreed. I thought Brewitt was a great signing and was given a chance early on after Alex Kenyon’s injury. He needs game time at this level to find his feet and I hope he’s given it, yet Tutte and Wildig with O’Sullivan will get the midfield slots if they’re fit.

Just on Macclesfield. All these looked good:

Kelleher - 23 - Solihull Moors - signed Summer 19
Welch-Hayes - 22 - Oxford City - Summer 18
Stephens - 22 - Academy
Ironside - 25 - York City - Summer 19
Pearson - 26 - Kidderminster - Summer 18
Horsfall - 22 - Kidderminster - Summer 19

There’s a few more too.

P.S. can you tell it’s a long journey from London I’m on.

The lad from Crewe has looked good in the clips but not had a sniff of league action yet.

Keith wrote:

Shrimpy wrote:I see Jim was a very risk averse manager, this comes across in both his tactics and signings.

But is that to a large extent, not having the scope to take risks? The primary goal each season is to avoid relegation and so taking a chance on younger players may be more likely to lead to relegation.

Yes, that was kind of my point, Jim seems to prefer experience over youth for that very reason, theres less chance of us getting relegated.

To date the intro of more youth at Macc appears to have worked. Maybe JB should give it a go.....

redrobo wrote:To date the intro of more youth at Macc appears to have worked. Maybe JB should give it a go.....

and if he did and it went tits up whose fault would it be ??

cragbankshrimp wrote:

redrobo wrote:To date the intro of more youth at Macc appears to have worked. Maybe JB should give it a go.....

and if he did and it went tits up whose fault would it be ??

So we have to persist with the 'same old same old' without giving youth a try. Surely the days of aged players still getting onto the team sheet has to change.

How many seasons have we flirted with relegation by JB only in the main playing so called experienced players without looking to home grown talent.

I recall only McGowan being given an extended run.

Maybe it's time for a new approach and give regular game time to some of the youngsters like Carlos. Jagne, Jynch and Brownsword...

And what's happened with his apparent reluctance to play Cranston who for me was excellent last season? It's not the first time that a player has been ignored after playing well in games only to find themselves on the sidelines.

Posh wrote:Yes Ken and how all those players have shown Jim just how wrong he was.

Osborne now plays non-league
Williams plays for a small college in the USA
Campbell plays two leagues below

The amount of nonsense about Jim’s use of players in this thread is staggering. Give me an example of players who have gone on to better things that Jim got rid of?

To be fair, I think almost everyone would have liked us to keep Collins, Mills, Bennett and Mandeville from last season.

Aaron hasn't scored yet and can't seem to get much game time for Forest Green.
Zak is now mainly warming the bench at Oldham, second bottom of the league.
Richie has 2 goals from 6 at Carlisle, one place above us.
Mandy has 1 goal from 10 games at Chesterfield currently bottom of the league below us.

I know it's early days, but so far they haven't really gone on to better things either, have they?

Ntini wrote:

Posh wrote:Yes Ken and how all those players have shown Jim just how wrong he was.

Osborne now plays non-league
Williams plays for a small college in the USA
Campbell plays two leagues below

The amount of nonsense about Jim’s use of players in this thread is staggering. Give me an example of players who have gone on to better things that Jim got rid of?

To be fair, I think almost everyone would have liked us to keep Collins, Mills, Bennett and Mandeville from last season.

Aaron hasn't scored yet and can't seem to get much game time for Forest Green.
Zak is now mainly warming the bench at Oldham, second bottom of the league.
Richie has 2 goals from 6 at Carlisle, one place above us.
Mandy has 1 goal from 10 games at Chesterfield currently bottom of the league below us.

I know it's early days, but so far they haven't really gone on to better things either, have they?

Bennett is at Port Vale. He came to us from Carlisle.

redrobo wrote:

Ntini wrote:

Posh wrote:Yes Ken and how all those players have shown Jim just how wrong he was.

Osborne now plays non-league
Williams plays for a small college in the USA
Campbell plays two leagues below

The amount of nonsense about Jim’s use of players in this thread is staggering. Give me an example of players who have gone on to better things that Jim got rid of?

To be fair, I think almost everyone would have liked us to keep Collins, Mills, Bennett and Mandeville from last season.

Aaron hasn't scored yet and can't seem to get much game time for Forest Green.
Zak is now mainly warming the bench at Oldham, second bottom of the league.
Richie has 2 goals from 6 at Carlisle, one place above us.
Mandy has 1 goal from 10 games at Chesterfield currently bottom of the league below us.

I know it's early days, but so far they haven't really gone on to better things either, have they?

Bennett is at Port Vale. He came to us from Carlisle.

The point is still relevant rr.
A reverse angle:
Lewis Allesandra. 9 goals from 65 apps for Notts County.
5 goals from 7 apps for the “mighty” Shrimps.
COYS.

Ntini wrote:Zak is now mainly warming the bench at Oldham, second bottom of the league.

Started at Barrow on Tuesday night in their (predominantly Reserves side) Lancashire Senior Cup tie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLlrPn8 ... e=youtu.be

I think there needs to be more understanding of the wide variety of factors that go into players performing well - both tactical and psychological.

Aaron Collins was a great success with us, but has struggled in spells with other L2 clubs, including Forest Green now. With us, we generally played pretty directly getting the ball forward pretty quickly. He was often paired with a big front man (Bennett/Oliver) who occupied defenders and made space for Collins to run into - something which he thrived off. FGR are predominantly a passing/possession team, which I imagine doesn't play into his style as much - receiving the ball in tight situations and being more creative.

Maybe Mills enjoyed being given pretty much a free run at right back with little competition, which helped him flourish. And maybe with Alessandra, it's due to him being given an extended run down the middle with the whole team pretty much focused around him.

There are a lot of factors that go into performances and I don't think it's as simple as just saying "he's gone here and done well/badly so that proves a point". Stockton/Miller have been fantastic in previous spells, but struggled at other clubs and now Stockton appears to be struggling on his return. Got to appreciate the nuance.

Little Shrimp wrote:I think there needs to be more understanding of the wide variety of factors that go into players performing well - both tactical and psychological.

Aaron Collins was a great success with us, but has struggled in spells with other L2 clubs, including Forest Green now. With us, we generally played pretty directly getting the ball forward pretty quickly. He was often paired with a big front man (Bennett/Oliver) who occupied defenders and made space for Collins to run into - something which he thrived off. FGR are predominantly a passing/possession team, which I imagine doesn't play into his style as much - receiving the ball in tight situations and being more creative.

Maybe Mills enjoyed being given pretty much a free run at right back with little competition, which helped him flourish. And maybe with Alessandra, it's due to him being given an extended run down the middle with the whole team pretty much focused around him.

There are a lot of factors that go into performances and I don't think it's as simple as just saying "he's gone here and done well/badly so that proves a point". Stockton/Miller have been fantastic in previous spells, but struggled at other clubs and now Stockton appears to be struggling on his return. Got to appreciate the nuance.

Very eloquently put, but maybe a little patronising(?)
I think most fans appreciate, that there are numerous factors that influence the performance of any player, at any team, at any level. The bottom line is, that the players mentioned previously, were managed and played in such a way at Morecambe, so as to bring out the best of their abilities. They have moved on to new clubs, and in the early stages of this season, that is not being achieved. So for me, it is as simple as saying, “ he’s gone here done well/ badly, so that proves a point.” That said, it doesn’t mean that things won’t change as the season progresses.